Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/11/1993 01:30 PM Senate L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE
February 11, 1993
1:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Tim Kelly, Chairman
Senator Steve Rieger, Vice-Chairman
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Judy Salo
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 76
"An Act preventing persons with felony convictions from
being involved in charitable gaming activities as a
permittee, licensee, or employee in a managerial or
supervisory capacity; and relating to `political uses' and
`political organizations' as those terms are used in the
charitable gaming statutes."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 76 - NONE
WITNESS REGISTER
Commissioner Paul Fuhs
Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development
P.O. Box 110800
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0800
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 76.
Karl Luck, Director
Occupational Licensing
Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development
P.O. Box 110806
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0806
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 76.
John Hanson, Gaming Manager
Occupational Licensing
Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development
P.O. Box 110806
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0806
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 76.
Gary Amendola, Asst. Attorney General
Civil Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave information on SB 76.
Chip Toma
Marine Way #2
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 76.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-10, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN TIM KELLY called the Labor and Commerce Committee
meeting to order at 1:30 p.m.
SENATOR KELLY opened the meeting with SB 76 (CHARITABLE
GAMING RESTRICTIONS) and invited the sponsor, SENATOR DRUE
PEARCE, to testify on her bill.
SENATOR PEARCE explained SB 76 would achieve two things.
First, it would return gaming profits to worthwhile
charitable organizations. She attested to substantial
amounts of gaming proceeds, which are currently being
contributed directly to Alaskan political campaigns, to the
extent of $600 thousand reported for 1990 and 1991. She
thought this diversion of funds should be returned to a list
of worthwhile organizations.
SENATOR PEARCE said the second affect of the bill would
reduce the criminal elements from establishing a foothold in
Alaska's gaming industry, since it would prohibit felons
from gaming in any supervisory or managerial capacity. She
listed six definitions for this prohibition beginning with
being responsible for gaming receipts on through to being a
fund raiser or consultant.
SENATOR PEARCE praised Nevada for recognizing that any hint
of impropriety is unacceptable, and she described how they
excluded parking-lot attendants from employment if they had
a criminal record. She suggested it was time Alaska cleaned
up its gaming industry.
Number 071
SENATOR RIEGER asked about the phrase, theft and dishonest,
and asked for a legal definition of dishonesty. SENATOR
PEARCE passed the question to GARY AMENDOLA, Assistant
Attorney General, for a legal definition.
MR AMENDOLA said there is a legal definition for dishonesty.
He explained it isn't a term of art in the law, but has an
easily understood meaning, and he gave the example of
robbing a bank as dishonesty. Perjury would be a crime of
dishonesty. He said the Department of Law has not yet
adopted regulations to define dishonesty, and in the present
legislation, he didn't see a problem in figuring out which
ones involve theft and dishonesty.
SENATOR KELLY asked COMMISSIONER PAUL FUHS if he wished to
testify.
COMMISSIONER FUHS testified in favor of SB 76, and he
referred to a state-by-state comparison guide, compiled by
the Gaming Section, to show what other states allow
pertaining to licensing. He reviewed the statistics that
show the states with the highest levels of gambling activity
do have denial-for-life for convicted felons.
COMMISSIONER FUHS said Alaska was the only state surveyed
that allowed gaming for political campaigns, but he thought
it was clear that political campaigns were not a charity.
He outlined a possible conflict-of-interest between
legislators and regulating the gaming industry. He said a
report would be out in March showing which candidates
received money - at present a legal contribution.
Number 138
SENATOR KELLY expressed concern that people, who are sent to
prison, are not allowed to work at anything but crime when
they return. He asked for a list of occupations, licenses,
and professions in which felons may not be employed.
JOHN HANSON, Gaming Manager for the Department of Commerce
and Economic Development, said he was only aware of two,
with gaming being one where there is a background check. He
said the other was collection agencies, which also requires
a background check, and felons can also be bared for life.
SENATOR KELLY asked if a person could get a law license if
they were convicted of a felony. MR. HANSON explained it
was a board not under occupational licensing. SENATOR KELLY
asked if a person could go to work for the state if they had
been convicted of a felony. MR. HANSON thought they might,
but his department doesn't control that either. He also
explained there was a question on the state application for
classified employment relating to whether a person has been
convicted of a felony. They discussed several aspects of
this question in relation to being a real estate agent.
Number 194
SENATOR KELLY and MR. HANSON returned to the subject of
gaming, theft, felony convictions, and being bared for life.
SENATOR KELLY was concerned there were people bared from
employment, who had committed crimes many years ago.
SENATOR PEARCE suggested that drug trafficking should join
the list of those prohibited from managing a gaming
establishment. MR. HANSON said the people mentioned by
SENATOR KELLY could still work in lesser categories of
responsibility in gaming.
SENATOR KELLY asked if these persons could own the gaming
establishment, and MR. HANSON explained the games were
conducted by permitees, who can hire persons or contract to
use an operator. Since an operator could not have a felony
conviction, his answer to SENATOR KELLY'S question was no.
Number 232
SENATOR KELLY asked for a list of what can not be done by a
convicted felon in Alaska. MR. HANSON said he would try to
provide such a list. SENATOR KELLY thought there should be
more opportunities for a person to redeem their mistake.
MR. HANSON, in discussion with SENATOR KELLY, recalled that
a felon could not get other types of licenses such as a
beverage dispensary license to sell beer or wine. SENATOR
KELLY was sure there were more, even for minor offenses.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked SENATOR PEARCE why the prohibition was
moved from 5 years to for-ever.
SENATOR PEARCE began by stating she didn't think there
should be gaming in Alaska, charitable or otherwise, and she
explained her thinking as a product of where she was raised.
She was raised on a farm that also raised race horses, and
she drew on her experience with race tracks, which had to be
operated without any criminal elements.
SENATOR PEARCE said gaming in Alaska was a $200 million
business, and she reviewed the number of problems generated
by the industry. She claimed Alaska is lacking in the
infrastructure to manage the gaming industry, and reiterated
that convicted felons should be prohibited (forever) from
working in a management position in the gaming industry.
SENATOR PEARCE reviewed her previous bill on the same
subject that would have prohibited family members of
convicted felons from operating gaming businesses. She said
public radio and TV have been allowed to expand the gaming
industry in the state, and she discussed the ramifications.
SENATOR PEARCE said she was fearful that organized crime
would try to take over the state.
Number 309
SENATOR LINCOLN thought SENATOR PEARCE'S fears were for the
urban setting, but she was concerned about the small
communities in her district, where bingo would fall under a
charitable game activity. She said few people could
volunteer their time, and she didn't know who in the small
communities might be a felon.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked what would happen in a small community
where a volunteer runs a small bingo game if that individual
is found to be a felon. She explained the bingo receipts
are used for charitable uses such as providing
transportation for patients who cannot pay to go to the
hospital. She asked who is responsible for checking the
person running the bingo game.
SENATOR LINCOLN'S second question concerned a person who was
paid a small amount to run the bingo game, and again, who is
responsible for checking that person's record.
Number 334
MR. HANSON said, under current law, his department or the
organization designates the person responsible for the game,
usually by a board resolution appointing a member-in-charge.
This member-in-charge is the one given a background check.
In the case of paid employees, a list of the persons, with
their social security numbers, is sent to Occupational
Licensing for a background check. A felony conviction under
five years old, or a crime of theft or dishonesty, would
disqualify a potential person from running a bingo game.
MR. HANSON, in reference to a question by SENATOR KELLY on
investigations, said there was a common element - a criminal
record. He explained there were people, who have murdered
or attempted to murder, who are not prohibited from running
a gaming business.
SENATOR KELLY asked if there was a convicted murderer in
gaming today, and MR. HANSON said that was correct. He said
these were the persons causing the most problems.
Number 358
SENATOR LINCOLN asked MR. HANSON if he had a list of those
individuals by region that have been denied a permit
application or an operator's license. She indicated an
interest in knowing how many were in the small communities
that have been denied, in comparison with the larger
regions. SENATOR LINCOLN was concerned there would be a
blanket prohibition to close the door to those who are
trying to run an honest operation.
MR. HANSON said he could provide SENATOR LINCOLN with a list
of those with prohibitive criminal records - about ten
people. He said some of the employees actually conduct the
gambling activity, thus they didn't fall into the managerial
category. He explained several important aspects, including
posting security, and the statutory language. He referred
to a variety of crimes that would fit into the category of
"theft and dishonesty."
SENATOR KELLY discussed the list of those denied managerial
jobs with MR. HANSON, and SENATOR KELLY asked for a specific
list of crimes - not the names. MR. HANSON described other
crimes he would like to see on the restricted list.
Number 411
MR. HANSON explained to SENATOR LINCOLN how the denial
process worked in relation to managerial people and in some
cases operator applications were denied because of criminal
records. SENATOR LINCOLN asked if they were included in the
10 names on the denial list, and MR. HANSON said they were.
SENATOR LINCOLN suggested the sponsor wanted to prohibit
those individuals who have a record, but MR. HANSON can't
prohibit today. MR. HANSON admitted this was true, and
expanded on his reasons.
In answer to questions by SENATOR KELLY, MR. HANSON
described how he would like to see the process work with
investigations and assistance from the law enforcement
agency on white collar crime. There are only two people in
Alaska who work on white collar crimes, and this is not a
high priority with law enforcement, because of the press of
more serious crimes.
SENATOR KELLY asked how many people would be denied gaming
jobs if SB 76 were passed now, but MR. HANSON was unable to
give a firm number. He explained, as the licensing took
place every year, more people would be denied licenses.
Number 439
SENATOR KELLY invited CHIP TOMA to testify.
MR. TOMA testified that technically he is a felon, and
technically not a felon, and he explained how this came
about in what he also explained was a sting operation aimed
at apprehending politicians.
MR. TOMA accused the governor of illegally obtaining his
record, publicizing it, and classifying him as a felon all
over again. After disclosing the case against him, MR. TOMA
said he resented being prohibited from many forms of
employment. He also claimed he opposed all forms of
gambling, but he also opposed prohibiting any type of
organization, based on the politics, to engage in something
which is now legal.
Number 460
After talking to many of the people involved in gaming in
Alaska, MR. TOMA concluded the operators of the pull-tab
operations were thieves, only returning 4% of the gross
product - sometimes. He explained it was only the political
parties that conducted the games in a proper manner, where
the members of the group selflessly sold the tickets and
were accountable. MR. TOMA thought that was the only way
the games should be conducted throughout the state. He
praised the political parties for doing this and admonished
those groups that hired the thieving operators.
MR. TOMA returned to his first choice, which was to
eliminate gambling, because it took money from poor people.
He talked about the difficulty the political parties have in
raising money for political candidates, who then resort to
$1000 lobbyists.
SENATOR PEARCE said her legislation did not prohibit
political parties from having a permit, but would prohibit
the direct contribution to a specific candidate's campaign.
Number 493
MR. TOMA explained he had been involved with the Democratic
party since 1970, and he claimed that every cent that was
raised went to the candidates, but was not used for the
promotion of the party.
SENATOR KELLY asked MR. TOMA how many job classifications he
was prohibited from taking in Alaska, because of his felony
background.
MR. TOMA said he was aware of two: school teaching and
school bus driving. Managing a gaming operation would be
the third. There was a discussion of a number of former
felons who lobby the legislature. He said he couldn't be a
police officer, or have any type of public safety job,
although he was once a fireman on the North Slope.
MR. FUHS quoted MR. HANSON that with MR. TOMA'S suspended
sentence, he would be able to manage a gambling operation in
Alaska, and the political parties would be able to raise
money under SB 76 for charitable purposes, but not for
specific candidates.
SENATOR KELLY said he wanted more information on what jobs
are prohibited to felons, and he reiterated his concerns
about employment for those who have paid their debt to
society.
Number 529
SENATOR RIEGER thought SENATOR KELLY had raised some good
points, but he didn't think charitable gaming was an option
he would want to consider.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she would like to hear the response and
see a report from MR. HANSEN on SENATOR KELLY'S questions,
as well as the list she previously requested. She said she
needed more information to be able to act in good faith on
the bill.
SENATOR KELLY said he would hold the bill for another
meeting and adjourned the committee at 2:17 p.m.
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